On August 28 2009 Dries Buytaert, the original author of the great open source CMS Drupal (which powers this site among other things), announced on his blog a new trademark policy for the software. We believe this policy does not accord with the spirit of free software: it says we should have asked them for permission to create this site! The clause may or may not stand up in court, but it's clearly there in the text. Other large open source projects don't do this, e.g. see the Linux trademark policy.
Of course we didn't actually ask for permission. The ball is now on the other side of the net: will Dries Buytaert initiate action against this site, ignore the alleged infringement, or amend the policy? Either choice will carry valuable information to the Drupal community. We also do not think that we are bound by an agreement that we have not explicitly consented to.
To make it absolutely clear that we do not agree with the policy we also registered drupalsucks.com, which the drupal trademark policy expressly forbids. That does not mean that we think that it really sucks (though, like every other piece of software on the planet it has its shortcomings), in fact it is a pretty impressive piece of software. But people should be free to criticize it in any way they see fit, including the registration of domain names that are less than flattering.
Another question to be answered are how the drupal foundation will work with parties that have already built up a business around the drupal name before this license was created.
Also see the discussions on Reddit and on Hacker News.
Jacques Mattheij, Vladimir Slepnev
Comments
You've been out of the loop
You've been out of the loop for years, and your idea here does nothing to add to a conversation that's been going on with full disclosure to the community with the oversight of the Drupal Association for some time.
So, you think when a
So, you think when a reprehensible policy is made official it is not time to express your disagreement with it ? As in 'too late now' ?
The Linux trademark policy
The Linux trademark policy sucks, too, then.
Take a look at http://www.linuxmark.org/
Dries is following a well-established precedent that's existed in the open source community for years. It's intended from keeping a private corporation from appropriating the Drupal name and telling US what to do with it.
It's also intended to keep profiteers from cashing in on the Drupal name we've all worked on without giving back to the community.
Personally, I think the policy is a great idea, but I'll respect your difference of opinion.
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Claudio, the Linux policy
Claudio, the Linux policy doesn't forbid anyone to register linuxsucks.com - check their FAQ. This fact is explicitly mentioned in our post.
(Was the first anonymous
(Was the first anonymous poster, forgot to add a name.)
"So, you think when a reprehensible policy is made official it is not time to express your disagreement with it? As in 'too late now'?"
I'm not saying it's too late now or ever. However, your article above presents this as something new -> "announced on his blog a new trademark policy for the software." It's misinformed to say the policy is new. Its development has been ongoing in the open for some time now. There was even a full draft posted for feedback in 2008!
You can express your disagreement whenever you want, but if you actually wanted to see it change before it did become "official", there have been ample opportunities. Now you've established yourself as a rebel against an overbearing policy, essentially making it harder for you to have any positive input in the discussion. Your open letter is unconvincing, and you're hurting your position by your approach.
I also think the burden of proof is on you to establish how this policy is reprehensible. I've been developing on Drupal for years, mostly as the Ubercart project lead, and I don't have any problems with the policy as stated or feel it restricts my freedoms or abilities to profit from my work in any way.
hi Ryan, Well, let me try to
hi Ryan,
Well, let me try to make this plain. I've been hosting drupal sites for about 17 months now, with the advertising income going towards hosting and such, we spent quite a bit of time and effort at building a solution that works 100% automatic. Right now about 1500 sites host their content on our servers.
We've built some brand recognition around this and have an advertising deal in place.
Suddenly, we now find that we have a 'partner' because we are bound by some automatic license deal, which contains text that borders on the insane. It implies that part or all of our income is to be destined in ways that may not agree with our vision.
It is suddenly no longer ok for people to register domain names that might be critical of drupal ?
No 'grandfather' clause ?
Mind you, in the 18 months that our site has been listed (on drupal.org no less) not even a single peep that our use of the name drupal would be considered an infringement under this proposal.
Even if you had a deal before this new policy was enacted your old agreement is canceled by Feb. 28th 2010.
So, I now have to go and *ask* pretty please if we are to be allowed to continue to run our business ?
I don't think so.
The trademark development
The trademark development process has been ongoing for over a year at this point. It's been on the frontpage of Drupal.org several times.
Drafts have been posted. Feedback has been asked and given, and the final released policy represents the input from all those who have cared to give input.
Where were you in this whole process?
If you have put time, money, sweat, blood and tears into building a business as dependent on Drupal, but can't be bothered to stay current with Drupal's future and what is going on in the community, than you are in a mess of your own making.
Brian, the restrictions on
Brian, the restrictions on domain names are beneficial or harmful regardless of how we were spending our time when people were thinking them up.
"There's no point in acting
"There's no point in acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display in your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it now."
That argument was presented as obviously humorous when Douglas Adams put it in the mouth of the Vogon Captain in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. What makes you think anyone wants to take it seriously now?
The policy is substantively worse than existing policies for other FLOSS projects. Failure to see and acknowledge the difference is disingenuous.
Wow, someone who develops
Wow, someone who develops for Drupal doesn't have a problem with the policy and doesn't think it restricts his freedom or ability to profit. Shocking.
This is a pretty pathetic
This is a pretty pathetic way to express your disagreement. The Drupal community has a history of being collaborative, constructive and willing to change. This post does not reflect that, so I don't feel like you are speaking on behalf of the many Drupal users out there.
@ previous Anonymous You are
@ previous Anonymous
You are pathetic as well. I am pathetic as well.
So, what's the deal with all of this empathy?
"The Drupal community has a
"The Drupal community has a history of being collaborative, constructive and willing to change."
Oh SURE it does. With "they" being Dries and his small cloud of yes-men: collaborative amongst themselves, constructive of what they want and willing to change the whole API every major release.
Yay?
Guess what, it's also a
Guess what, it's also a do-ocracy. You cant change things by complaining. You help offer alternatives and solutions, and discuss them with community members. This trademark policy was openly discussed in an open group at http://groups.drupal.org/node/15023. Anyone was free to join the discussion and provide their concerns. But no one did. Now all the crazies are outraged because "OMG Dries wants my first born son for saying or writing the word 'Drupal'". Ridiculous.
As far as APi changes, please read http://drupal.org/node/65922 before you say another word. If module maintainers can't support their own modules, you probably shouldn't be using them. Or you could fall under that do-ocracy part and help use the available tools to help upgrade modules yourself.
Maybe no-one did because
Maybe no-one did because they didn't know ?
If you have a discussion like that in a community that numbers in the 10's of thousands and you find no takers you may have to consider the method of your announcement.
Do you need to be spoon fed
Do you need to be spoon fed everything? Do you need personal attendants to find answers to things that you could possibly need to know? NEWS FLASH: The internet is big. Drupal.org is big. Not everything can be delivered to your doorstep.
This had been in the works for about a year, Dries announced the upcoming trademark policy on his blog. All you had to do was ask someone "Hey were is the policy being discussed?"
No, I do not need to be
No, I do not need to be 'spoon fed everything'. A simple email alert would have sufficed, I'm sure I would have found my way to it like that.
About Dries' blog, (in the words of Dries himself: "Last time I checked, my personal blog was ... my personal blog. I'm not asking you to be a reader of my blog."
So much for that I guess...
He's also the trademark
He's also the trademark holder of the software you created your entire business around. So maybe you might be interested in what he has been up to. Just sayin'.
I think you somewhat
I think you somewhat underestimate the size and composition of my business.
The policy was also
The policy was also announced on Drupal Planet, drupal.org, groups.drupal.org and the Drupal Association Planet.
The way to make public
The way to make public announcements about things affect the community as a whole is to use the mailing list. My email address is on file with drupal.org, we are listed on the http://drupal.org/hosting page.
I have not seen a single announcement about this whole thing.
First thing I heard about it was this morning.
As for the community being collaborative and constructive I think that is a matter of opinion, mine is probably different from everybody elses.
If I were to put it in to words it would be 'it works but it could be a whole lot better'. Curiously that is roughly how I feel about drupal as well.
Some of us have work to do and do not hang out on drupal.org unless we have to simply because it is too hard to find what you need there. My drupal.org frontpage is site:drupal.org [searchterm] , saves me hours.
No public announcements? You
No public announcements? You mean like http://buytaert.net/drupal-trademark-policy-forthcoming
see above.
see above.
Have you even looked at the
Have you even looked at the trademark policy of other large open source projects like MySQL (http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/trademark.html)? Surprise... they're quite similar. Are you going to start spreading FUD about MySQL as well? Their policy states "The use must not be detrimental, i.e., harmful or damaging, to the value of any of the MySQL Marks, or to MySQL AB, its brand integrity, reputation or goodwill, as determined by MySQL AB in its sole discretion".
Good work Jacques /
Good work Jacques / Vladimir.
I find the negative comments to your actions a little odd though. Dries has come out with an excessively restrictive set of clauses, and the internet proves time and again when you do this there will be community reaction.
Especially when what he's demanding of the community is not enforceable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ITE7ITSR6M, http://www.taubmansucks.com.
It's a little odd that people who have worked for so many years cultivating communities are happy to run over them once the lawyers get involved - just look at what happened with twiki / foswiki: http://foswiki.org/About/WhyThisFork
If I was going to start
If I was going to start using a name I hadn't invented as the basis for my business, I would at least make a cursory examination of the legal status of that name. That's just a normal responsibility of doing business. So did you go to drupal.org and do any research when you started? I just spent a couple of minutes and found this - http://drupal.org/node/193845
In fact we clearly announced
In fact we clearly announced our presence on Drupal.org, we're even listed on the 'hosting' page:
http://drupal.org/hosting
So you expect the Drupal
So you expect the Drupal community to have somehow volunteered your business free legal consultancy because you placed an ad? Should they have done your tax returns also?
I somehow don't see the
I somehow don't see the equivalence between 'a three line email' and asking them to do my free legal consultancy or my tax returns.
If you have a place where you list sites providing a service then you should probably inform those sites if you make policy changes that will affect them.
It makes good business sense, it makes sure that those who are dependent on your decisions are kept in the loop when it matters.
No, the onus is on you as
No, the onus is on you as business owner to research your responsibilities and nobody else. This information was freely available and put out to community consultation (and continues to be so). Please don't blame others because you didn't do your initial research or choose to participate in the consultation.
So, I'm to be bound by a
So, I'm to be bound by a piece of text that I have had no insight in nor input in (which is already a little strange for a license agreement), in spite of having clearly announced our presence to the rights owners and using the trademark in a way that is only to be described as Nominative Use ?
You have the law backwards. If - and that is a pretty big if - there would be an infringement then the rights holders should have told us about that when they decided *not* to place that link on drupal.org.
That would have been an excellent time.
And from what I know about these things Acquia is simply wrong in asserting that these uses are infringing, there are provisions in the law for exactly this sort of situation.
But time will tell.
The optimal path for Dries & Co would be to strongly police those parties that claim to be a 'part of drupal' when they're not to avoid confusion (which is what trademark law is all about), and to leave people that write books, build websites to assist people in using drupal, commercially or otherwise, organize events, create local user groups etc. out of this whole game.
Drupal thrives exactly because of all those people that do their best to get it under the eyes of as many people as possible. These restrictive policies - and restrictive they are, in spite of all the words to the contrary - are not benefiting anybody. Except maybe a bunch of lawyers.
By the way, you don't have to be anonymous here, you can log in and get an account, makes it a bit easier to have a conversation if you know who you're talking to.
As I said this is all your
As I said this is all your responsibility and nobody else's. Whether a business is infringing or not is a matter for the owner of that business to discover to their own satisfaction - and not for the community to try and volunteer free legal consultancy (even if they did, no business owner in their right mind would rely on that).
The text attempts to clarify the provisions that are already in law and has had community and legal input. Whether it succeeds or not is an entirely different question and would presumably need to be tested in court.
Why the f**k can others not
Why the f**k can others not use Drupal in domain name but Dries who seem to have hijacked the development of thousands of developers and buried under Acquia dollar power can use things the way he likes with drupalgardens.com being the latest example? Anything Acquia does has blessings of Dries automatically and if you rant about it, his small troop of 'yes-mans' will make you look bad.
Dries is a sick bastard who only works for his own interest and pretends to be a community leader.
There are many businesses who have been in business longer than Acquia but are impacted since Dries is not coming clean on some very important matters.
Folks, let's not forget that
Folks, let's not forget that Dries is trying to protect only the Drupal trademark.
Drupal code -- and all its modules -- is GPL, and as such you can fork it and name your branch any way you like (just beware to not get caught in other trademark issues :-)). You can build a site with an entire community around your fork, and even have your own trademark policy that permit anyone to use your project name in domains, t-shirts etc. IANAL, but I guess all you have to do is write somewhere "Gyterezedy CMS is based on Drupal. Drupal is a trademark of Dries Bxxxxxxx" (sorry -- I can never remember how to spell his second name properly).
I particularly think that Dries went too far in the Policy. Things like requiring that ad revenues of your site be redirected to him is just too much to me. I was preparing to start a website with "drupal" in the domain name, where I would post tips about usage of the CMS in general. Being a Drupal user since 2004, and having a great deal of experience with Drupal and PHP, I think that I had a lot to contribute. However, it would be a commercial site, whereas I would sell ads to support the site and add to my incoming. Needless to say that this project is on hold and probably will never be deployed. It just makes no sense not to use the word "drupal" on the site.
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It's one thing to enforce
It's one thing to enforce the policy, but it's a completely different one when you email them about this matter on more than one occasion with absolutely no result/reply.
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The legal policy in Drupal
The legal policy in Drupal TOS will not tolerate any site like this. I was really wondering how can you make such site with Drupal? You must be good at persuasive skill.
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It's appropriate for Drupal
It's appropriate for Drupal to have a trademark policy to protect it from being used to describe products/companies that are not really Drupal.
The trouble is that Dries should not own and protect the trademark as an individual. He has a huge conflict of interest -- the first license he granted for a commercial use was to his own company, Acquia, to create DrupalGardens.com.
The trademark should be owned and enforced by a non-profit, such as the Drupal Association, which will have in its charter the legal requirement that it treat individuals and companies even handedly. Whatever policy the non-profit established for commercial use would be public (Dries does not list his criteria for granting commercial licenses) and benefit the Drupal project as a whole, not an individual.
For six years, before Dries announced he owned the trademark, the name Drupal was freely used by many companies and individuals. This fostered great growth in the project.
If Dries has established a restrictive trademark and license policy from day one, we would not have an open source Drupal movement right now -- the perception that Drupal was not controlled or owned by anyone for their commercial benefit was vital to gaining the participation of tens of thousands of developers.
It is thanks to the work of these tens of thousands of people that the name "Drupal" has value, and a trademark is worth enforcing. That value should be the property of the community, not one person.
I would urge anyone planning on contesting the policy to seek legal representation from an organization such as Electronic Freedom Foundation -- getting your trademark application for a derivative of Drupal denied, and then not having a legal team to fight the decision, only establishes further precedent that the trademark has been properly claimed by Dries.
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